America Used Nazi MP40s in Vietnam – MACV-SOG Secret Weapons
Before we continue, I’d just like to draw your attention to my revamped Patreon, where supporters can now receive a whole series of new benefits. Check out the link in the description box below. World War II German weapons used in the Vietnam War sounds preposterous. Well, as those of you who have followed this channel for many years will know, I have made a video about this very subject.
though in the case of German World War II weapons from the perspective of their use by North Vietnam and the Vietkong rather than by the Americans. Then I came upon this photograph taken in the mid 1960s in Vietnam, clearly showing a US soldier carrying a World War II German MP40 machine pistol. His uniform is odd and his equipment odder, but there is a logical explanation to this image.
The soldier in the photograph belonged to a very secret military organization active in the Vietnam War, known today by the acronym MACV SOG, which stood for Military Assistance Command Vietnam Studies and Observation Group. Sounds harmless enough, but in fact, MACV SOG was one of the most lethal and effective military forces deployed by the United States to Indo-China.
And it’s no surprise that it was directly linked to the CIA rather than the US Army. Consisting of special forces soldiers mostly drawn from the green berets. Maki SOG undertook deep reconnaissance missions behind enemy lines including outside of South Vietnam infiltrating into neighboring North Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia to seek out and destroy North Vietnamese truck columns, ammunition dumps, truck parks, storage sites, base camps, and a multitude of other important supply logistics.
paying particular attention of course to disrupting the Hoji Min trail via which North Vietnam supplied guerrillas in the south. The problem was that the US could not admit to having troops in so-called neutral nations like Laos or Cambodia. So to support this deniability, the MAC SOG teams wore unmarked or non US uniforms, carried no types of identification or dog tags, and importantly for this video, use weapons that were foreign and therefore unattributable to the US military.
The weapon most closely associated with early MCI SOG operations was the Swedish Khal Gustaf Model 1945 submachine gun called the Swedish K by MAC so personnel. They were supplied along with 9mm ammunition via the CIA had a folding stock and a 36 round magazine. MV SOG operators carried lots of ammunition in order to fight their way out of trouble which they often found themselves in and in the case of the Swedish K being one full magazine in the weapon and at least 12 in pouches for 468 rounds.
However, a peculiarity of MAC so teams was having the right to choose their personal weapons. Teams generally consisted of two to three US green berets plus four to six South Vietnamese operators. The green bars often had a choice of weapons, remembering of course that they would need to be foreign and not US and therefore untraceable.
And that’s how several MAC sogg soldiers ended up using the German MP40. MP40s were already in Vietnam, coming from two main areas. World War II guns captured by the Soviets that had been stored and then handed out to fellow communists such as Vietkong and from the leftovers of the French colonial period. The French having fought a long and bitter campaign to hang on to Indo-China until eventually giving up in the late 1950s.
Many French units used World War II captured German weapons alongside French and US ones. However, the MAC SOG soldiers that requested MP40s got theirs through the same secret supply channel that led back to the CIA as everyone else. the CIA having access to pretty much any weapon that anybody could want, plus spares and ammunition.
So, why the MP40? It is known to be a highly controllable submachine gun, primarily due to its design, low rate of fire, and 9mm ammunition. It is easy to handle, especially in automatic fire, and very suitable for the kinds of mid to close-range engagements MAC SOG teams would have had in the jungles of Indochina.
The weapon is also quite lightweight at 8.85 lb and was a sturdy and stable platform. It is easy to see how highly controllable the MP40 is compared with some other weapons of the Vietnam War. Thanks to the full nine for these shooting clips. Do please check out his channel via the link in the description box below.
So let’s firstly look at the MP40 being fired demonstrating its controllability. Now, let’s look at the standard American M16 rifle of the Vietnam War. Some MCI SOG units naturally used enemy weapons of the Soviet AK family. Using enemy weapons was of course common sense, particularly due to the sound of these weapons being fired being indistinguishable from those of your enemy.
But again, in full auto, AKs do bounce around a bit. >> [snorts] >> Watch again the much better control of the MP40 keeping the weapon on target with ease. Here is another photograph of two MAC so operatives in World War II US Marine Corps M42 duck hunter camouflage uniforms and armed with MP40s. The MP40’s magazine holds 32 rounds of 9 by19 mm parabellum, comparable to the Swedish K, but is a much more expensively produced weapon.
Later in the Vietnam War, once substantial numbers of US weapons had been captured and used by the North, it was decided to drop the deniability requirement regarding the use of US weapons by MV SOG. And indeed, a brand new US weapon was designed for use by MACV SOG, the XM1 177. Last year, I was able to get my hands on this very early example of an XM1 177 rifle, a cult model 620, which is currently on display at the Combined Military Services Museum at Molden and Essex.
Please check out their website in the description box below, and visit the museum if you can. It’s one of the finest collections of firearms in the UK. The XM1 177, the C-15 version of the M16 and the grandfather of today’s M4 carbines, had a 10-in barrel on the earliest versions, and a distinctive 4.2 in compensator flash suppressor. They were officially only available with 20 round magazines, inadequate for MAC SOG missions.
Some team leaders actually purchased 30 round magazines through guns and ammo and issued each man one 30 round magazine along with the government issued 20 rounders. This XM177 is fitted with a 30 round magazine. However, it is interesting to note that some MAC SOG recon men still preferred the 45 caliber suppressed World War II M3A1 grease gun, which had been developed by the CIA’s predecessor organization, the OSS.
Like the MP40, it had a very controllable 450 RPM rate of fire. Many many different types calibers of weapon were used by MC SOG but that story is outside the scope of this video. It is generally supposed, however, that World War II weapons like the MP40 were replaced in the late 1960s MACV SOG service by the XM1 177.